Halfway down the Danube

The idolization of Adem Jashari seems like a pretty good example of the kind of place an independent Kosovo will be - violent and nationalist (not that it isn't that already).

Sure, wars/revolutions usually lead to this kind of behavior (see the rest of the western Balkans, or in fact most of Eastern Europe or even the US, for an example of that). Question is what the rest of the world can/should do about it.

Answers will differ from country to country, but in the case of Kosovo the anwer is probably to give it the independence it wants, maybe after letting a bit in the north go to Serbia (with the necessary population exchanges), and then leaving it alone.

With what seems to be the current main plan of giving all of Kosovo to the Albanians but with continued foreign presence and controls to ensure minority (serb) rights, only risks perpetuating the nationalism.

In my mind there's no reason why Kosovo shouldn't be able to turn itself into a reasonably stable place if the Kosovo albanians were left alone to forge a positive national identity instead of one which is based on opposing or confronting outsiders (serbs, macedonians, the UN, etc.).

You obviously know very little about the albanian culture, and Adem Jashari, or even what it was like for us in Albanian, Macedonia, and Kosova. Adem Jashari gave us the freedom we needed, after years of our men being beaten by serb forces, and women being raped. My five year old cousin got shot by a serbian military officer for holding the albanian flag in her hand. Adem Jashari was a great man, and the bullshit about him shooting his nephew is false. His entire family did not die either, his neice made it free. This is when people started naming their children Flamuri, and Shqiponje. Meaning flag, and eagle.

All the things the serbs put out there is a bunch of propaganda! Adem Jashari fought the bulk of the serbian forces alone for 3 days. He was a god send and is smiling down from heaven looking at an Albanian Kosovo.

The serbian forces were gathering in the factory near the village for weeks before the fighting started. It was a well planned extermination of the Jashari family. Adem Jashari new it, all his friends were telling him to leave the country, but he stayed, and fought, and died a hero. People like him never really die and banners and giant pictures like that described in the article will grow all over Kosova and will haunt the enemies for centuries to come. Just as a comparison, like the image of Scanderbeg still haunts the enemies of all Albanians all around the world. It's an image that has inspired great people like Adem Jashari and his family and many many others through the centuries, to make the ultimate sacrifice. Our neighbours just can't get it: if you want to take our land, you have to kill us all first.

you have no idea what you are talking about dont talk bout albanians adem jashari is a great man and was a wonderful leader! his neice made it alive and i personally no her! shes a great person and much like her uncle!dont judge or talk if u have no idea

Douglas, with all do respect, I think you're the dumb one here. Perhaps doing a bit more research about the Albanian people and the countless nationalistic ideas and views - along with the culture, traditions, home life, language, history, etc - would better explain why Adem Jashari's picture mounting across the UN is vital.

Also, you're right about one thing: the Albanians did have a HELL of a time under Serbian rule, especially since World War 1. All the more reason to rebel against such a volatile, disgraceful, Hitler-like regime. It was long overdue and the on-going political and economical turmoil ravaging Serbia should give you an idea of exactly WHO is laughing now.

Serb, HRW and view of some of the people that posted here previously have some truth but there are many inconsistencies as well. There is a story of serbs planning the attack, because there was amassing of the troops near the villages in question. Yes it is true, their troops were being constantly killed in ambushes, and the attack by the military and the police was becoming imminent *. That is not my interpretation but is evidenced by the daily Albanian press that was freely published in Kosovo at the time, which openly proclaimed free Drenica and the “military successes” of the Albanian fighters of the like Adem Jashari. Naturally under no circumstances would Serbs allow this to grow and the response was highly anticipated.
Now, how do you explain that in that situation Jashari a natural target keeps all his family in the house. One of the postings above even states that it was “well planed extermination of the Jashari family” and that Jashari himself “knew it,” even “friends telling him to leave the country.” How does one in that situation keep all his family, women, children together while being a self-proclaimed cop-killer? The other posting states that he fought bulk of the Serbian forces alone for three days! If he fought for three days from his sieged house with family inside Serbian account makes more sense.
If Albanians didn’t get the support from the international community the events of Prekaze would end up in a dump of history like many other atrocities committed towards many oppressed people. “By mid-1999 the conflict between the PKK and the Turkish government had left at least 30,000 people dead or homeless.” (quote form Encarta). The conflict ended as Kurdish people understood that there is no way out, they were militarily inferior and there was no chance of foreign support. If however the events caused strong condemnation by the international community the rebellion would rise and become widespread like in Kosovo. My point is that Serb strategy was not wrong in trying to cut it at roots but the international catalyst had different plans thus their strategy eventually resulted in the rebellion. Even at the end of the Kurdish conflict that resulted in more casualties than Kosovo the condemnation never came while in Kosovo immediately after the Prekaz crackdown there was international outrage (compare 50 to 30,000 casualties).

So Albanian militarism is somewhat understandable since the international community chose to ignore their plight, which resulted in 10 years of children getting their education in parallel, unrecognized system of education. But once they decided to take arms (even though it clearly was a futile effort) they support was overwhelming. That is why Albanians today believe that you cannot get a state without shedding blood where the reality is that if it was that easy today we would have free Chechenia, Kurdistan, Basque country, Northern Ireland and many many more. But the real victory did not come from Jashari but from Clinton. It is ironic that the whole Kosovo intervention was sold as a plight of civilians but the main symbols of war for Albanian today are men in uniforms. They created many myths of their glorious brave fights while for the export purposes their heroes are civilian victims. So yes Jashari is US as much as Kosovar creation.

It would be unfair however to say that Albanins did not suffer. They were oppressed, and disgustingly and openly discriminated against, their opportunities taken away, their education taken away. But to be fair the killings, rapes and so on are lies, especially if they are said to have happen before the creation of their guerilla (Yes police was corrupt but not murderous). Example of the exaggeration can be seen in the previous postings as well. Like, the girl shot for carrying the flag. You can sell the story like that to an American but anyone living in Kosovo would lough as there was no Albanian wedding in Kosovo that happen without a flag (they were not on the government buildings, that is true). The Albanian newspapers and magazines were often issued with the header “republic of Kosova” openly in the kiosks, compare that to this quote from Encarta “In the mid-1990s, however, the government lifted some of these restrictions, allowing, for example, the publication of materials in Kurdish”. In turkey Kurds cannot even publish in their own language let alone publish a material from “independent republic of Kurdistan.” There were even Albanian elections organized. The weekly press conferences by the self proclaimed Albanian “president of Kosova” were held openly. Serbs simply ignored all of that but did not go into rampant killings and rape, as some here want us to believe. We can even look at Amnesty International of HRW for the report from those years before the rebellion. I would like to here what really happen to that girl with the flag?
However, after the rebellion the Serbs were often brutal and indiscriminant. Similarly to Americans in Iraq today, they do not kill intentionally but thousands died in en effort to suppress the insurgency. They simply brand them as “regretful collateral damage.” Of course I will not say Serbs had no choice or justify them. I won’t try to justify Americans in Iraq either so why would I do that for Serbs.

I have studied Kosovo Albanian history as an outsider, with no pre-conceptions or biases. It is very true that the Kosovo Albanians suffered under not only the Serbs, but under almost every regime that governed Kosovo. It is also true that there is NO Kosovo Albanian Nationalism. I meet hundreds of people in Kosovo every week and they all describe themselves as "Albanian"... Not "Kosovar". Many "Albanians" have never even been to Albania for generations... Kosovo will never have a chance of being a viable country until they develop a national identity.

Having studied Kosovo history, I was struck by several very interesting facts. First, for literally hundred of years, every repressive regime sparks a "revolt" much like the most recent one. EVERY "revolt" followed the same parameters and accomplished the same thing. Each revolt had no central leadership and no strategic vision. They would kill a few of the "oppressors" and then the oppressors would come and kill a few hundred villagers. No revolt ever accomplished anything militarily. Each revolt only accomplished getting thousands of villagers killed. This went on for hundreds of years without anyone realizing that they never accomplished anything other than the suffering of their own people.

UÇK was no exception. UÇK was made up of hundreds of "commanders". It seems, after the war, everyone was an UÇK Commander. Noone would combine forces or leave their own village for a concerted military effort.

What happened in 1998-1999 is this... UÇK would throw a few shots at the Serbian Police, perhaps hit a few, and then di-di. The Serbs would then come in later and punish whatever village was closest. I have not heard of one real "battle" between the Serbs and UÇK. In the conflict, 15,000 civilians (mostly villagers) were killed. 38,000 Albanian women were raped. Nothing was accomplished militarily by UÇK. What is most fascinating is that in the study of history we find many occasions where young men die for their country.... This is the first time that I can recall when young men caused old men, women and children to die for their country.

I am with the crowd that believes that Adem Jashari was a coward. He hid behind his family and cost them their lives... If he were truly a hero, he would have spared his family, and gone down in a blaze of glory. If he had been smart... he would have left the country. It is very impolitic to say such things in Kosovo... nevertheless, I know many Kosovo Albanians who privately express this opinion.

Kosovo Albanians adore Jashari for the simple reason that they have noone else to idolize.

I have studied Kosovo Albanian history as an outsider, with no pre-conceptions or biases. It is very true that the Kosovo Albanians suffered under not only the Serbs, but under almost every regime that governed Kosovo. It is also true that there is NO Kosovo Albanian Nationalism. I meet hundreds of people in Kosovo every week and they all describe themselves as "Albanian"... Not "Kosovar". Many "Albanians" have never even been to Albania for generations... Kosovo will never have a chance of being a viable country until they develop a national identity.

Having studied Kosovo history, I was struck by several very interesting facts. First, for literally hundred of years, every repressive regime sparks a "revolt" much like the most recent one. EVERY "revolt" followed the same parameters and accomplished the same thing. Each revolt had no central leadership and no strategic vision. They would kill a few of the "oppressors" and then the oppressors would come and kill a few hundred villagers. No revolt ever accomplished anything militarily. Each revolt only accomplished getting thousands of villagers killed. This went on for hundreds of years without anyone realizing that they never accomplished anything other than the suffering of their own people.

UÇK was no exception. UÇK was made up of hundreds of "commanders". It seems, after the war, everyone was an UÇK Commander. Noone would combine forces or leave their own village for a concerted military effort.

What happened in 1998-1999 is this... UÇK would throw a few shots at the Serbian Police, perhaps hit a few, and then di-di. The Serbs would then come in later and punish whatever village was closest. I have not heard of one real "battle" between the Serbs and UÇK. In the conflict, 15,000 civilians (mostly villagers) were killed. 38,000 Albanian women were raped. Nothing was accomplished militarily by UÇK. What is most fascinating is that in the study of history we find many occasions where young men die for their country.... This is the first time that I can recall when young men caused old men, women and children to die for their country.

I am with the crowd that believes that Adem Jashari was a coward. He hid behind his family and cost them their lives... If he were truly a hero, he would have spared his family, and gone down in a blaze of glory. If he had been smart... he would have left the country. It is very impolitic to say such things in Kosovo... nevertheless, I know many Kosovo Albanians who privately express this opinion.

Kosovo Albanians adore Jashari for the simple reason that they have noone else to idolize.

kosovars and albanians bravely took responsibility and defended their people against horribe serbian bullshit wanabee concquerers howd that work out for the serbs haha in internet nerd terms PWNED

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Actually,as soldier who was there there are some facts to consider.Serbian security forces were not killing innocent civilians but only those who carry weapons or cooperate with terrorists.A number of 38,000 Albanian women raped is not just a fiction but one of biggest lies in this war.Today it is clear that it was fake information and only Albanian propaganda.Adem Jasari did not give you freedom.You already had freedom in Yugoslavia.Full freedom and rights no other national minority ever had.But you presented world different picture.
About Jasari,he was terrorist who used wife as a human shield when Serb attack force reached his stronghold. He killed 3 policeman and wounded several mor before that.
You may delete my comment but i only said truth and the truth will prevail even with your censorship.

I'm only deleting comments that are obscene, insulting, or abusive.

Doug M.

Serbs pwned Jashari! That was good. All Terrorists should be handled this way.

I watched and cried for the Albanian people in Kosova,If i had been a man alone i would have gone to help them,the cruelty and horror of their loss and death broke my heart and wen i watch even writting this now i still cry for those who have died and those who have to live with these memories. I can only imagine never truly knowing how they feel.But i say all Albanians are welcome to my home and they stay in my heart always.Such strong proud people and still keep the good Heart,In their future i see so much good for them and their children to come.And they will have the good and bright future they deserve.Dont worry you's have not been forgotten and my children will no the stories of the true happenings.karen Ireland, Shqiptare i Bukur shume

miss Lule500 i loved your post. At first i was gonna post one with alot of hostility but after i read yours i came back down to earth and realized not everyone is as ignorant as those whom hate us. I am albanian but i was raised in America. It's sad that even over here, i deal with the aftermaths of the prejudices that still plague our people. People always try to find a different angle to every story but the only one you believe are the eyes of the witness. Adem Jashari may have ben warned of the attack, reality is they tryed to seige his town 3 times. Once in 91' where the fiercly resisted. Second, they came more organized and wouldv'e taken over the Jashari village, but the father said they won again, in his words because "friends came from the woods", and this was in 97' mind you. The last time was the one in which him and his family died. The friends that came from the woods, indicate it was not only his personal vedetta against serb forces but he was the first to make an impossible stand. He built a community around him just as Gjergj Kastrioti did. Today it was known as the UCK, 1000 years ago it was the Albanians. More would have came sooner you better beleive that. Due to the fact that all the borders in that region are closed from travel between them, kept the information from getting farther sooner. In 98-00 word reached the albanian population of the USA. Two of my cousins packed up and went to Kosova, they knew no one over there. Eventually attained ranks in the UCK. Point is, this has ben going on forever. In the early 1900's in present day Montenegro, the government had tried 2 seige the town of TUZI. They wanted to take it from the albanians and have for themselves in other words, expand there horizons. Two villages faught for it, Hoti (my fathers native land) and Gruda (my mothers native land) and they successively resisted there attempt to take our land away. My great grandfather and ancestors were among them who defended it. Funny thing is my great grandfather was a well known peace keeper in the region. Once again we had to resort to violence. This is great for our people tho, it brings us closer together, further motivates us due to everyone around us out for our demise. While they are still aiming to destroy us we continue to thrive on building a new future for our people. No one should have to live like my grandparents did. My grandmother, lost two sons few months after giving birth. It was common becuase the would not want to take them to a Yugoslav hospital. Women died on a regular basis during birth. Food was scarce. In the world today no country should have higher standards than others and no people should be more fortunate than others due to where the originated. My people have began the transition to a modern day world. Back then we couldnt, cause the only way out was through our enemies. Wouldn't you fight in the same circumstance?

A little bit of an update on the Balkans vs. The Albanians---there was 3 albanians arrested in Montenegro for coffee talk on albanian propaganda. They were arrested and tortured for a while or they claimed. As a result 18 albanians began transporting vintage world war two weapons to Tuzi. The montenegrin police found the stash and on the front page of the paper the next day there was an article about how terrorist albanians try 2 take over parliament. Also it claimed they were possibly linked to Al Qeuda. First off, who would try to take over parliament in a country with weapons from world war two? lol...Second, they took back their statements about the Al Qeuda after they found out every one of those 18 were roman catholic. I know a few of them personally. They grew up in the US. It continues in Greece. There was a video of 2 albanian kids getting tortured by greek police after they attempted to steal a womans purse. There was also an albanian kid about 16 yrs old that was hung in his jail cell. The police tried to cover it up and say it was a suicide. Mind you all of this is recent. So you can research it yourself. Think about it. If everyone around you hates you and won't give u the chance to intergrate into there society unless your a traitor? What options are you left with? Be a farmer, a criminal, or run to another country. There are as many albanians abroad as in Albanian lands. That says something. Very loudly too. Maybe this is why America backs our people now. The prime minister of albania said upon George W Bush's arrival recently, "If you believe in freedom, you believe in fighting for it. If you believe in fighting for it, you believe in the United States of America. Proudly within the year i will enlist in the US MARINE CORP. I have cousins in the Air Force, albanian friends in the Coast Gaurd and part of Americas homeland security which was recently established. Albanians do not have extreme nationalism because we would not intergrate into these societies at the extent that we do. But there is an unfinished fight. And we continue to suffer the after math of the great depression our people endured. 500 years of Ottoman rule than it was another long period of rule under the Yugoslavian banner and Greece. This age or borders and nationalism is still in its infancy. This is why there is so much conflict over the world or stories of it. Either you can hold you territory down with an iron fist or you fight to keep it. I guess it will eventually all fall into place. One of my favorite peices of literature was from Darwin in the Origin of Species. He was the father of the evolution concept. One thing he said that stuck in my mind more than anything was this, "Any peoples exposed to certain conditions for several generations are modified in that manner" For example, if your people have ben exposed to war for thousands of years you are more likely to be good fighters. Exposed to stronger sun, darker and rougher skin, blacks (you get the idea) Well to end this off on a good note. i want all of you to remember-we are ALL UCK.

As for the atrocities commited torwards the albanian people, they were far more harsh than any other place in the world. There was a few instances where pregnant albanian women were injected with some substance that as a result they would give birth to deformed children. There also was an instance where there was an entire elemetary school in Kosov that had the food for the children poisoned. In Adem Jashari's case, when they seiged the town successfully, all the women and children had there skulls stomped by the Serbs. Adem killed himself shortly after. The fact that they seiged the town with that magnitude and didnt even take the town for 24 hours, and afterwards they didnt even capture there intended target? It shows just how pitiful the Serbian military, their police force, and their militia were. During the seige they had regiments from each division, on the 3rd seige it was the Yugoslav elite. I can go on all day.

The reason why I decided to post e comment is merely because of the fact that I've eyewitnessed what happend on 5,6 and 7 March'98 in Prekaz (Adem Jashari's family). One cannot judge what happened there just because of this or that TV news or rumors spread by those who have no genuine information. I start shaking when I remember the glorious stand of Jashari family and cannot stop my tears running down my cheeks when I recall the picture of the bodies I've seen during the funeral. Not many people in world's history have shown the courage and passion for fatherland like Adem Jashari and his family did. His family and his sacrifice should be exalted to heaven just like the sacrifice of other Albanian people throughout Kosova who gave their lives for Kosova. How can one call a coward a man who stands up to protect his ethnic identity, to protect his wife and daughter from rapers, to protect his chldren from being masacred and who in the end of the day wanted to live in freedon just like the other people of the world. Cowards were Serbs who not being able to fight UCK killed innocent old people and children, who used all means of theror against civilians and who violated all war convenants. And with all due respect for the international community, no one can force me to live together with someone who killed my father, raped my sister, burnt my son and torched my house. To serbs I have only one reply: I HATE YOU IN THIS WORLD AND I WILL HATE YOU IN THE OTHER ONE AS WELL.

The reason why I decided to post e comment is merely because of the fact that I've eyewitnessed what happend on 5,6 and 7 March'98 in Prekaz (Adem Jashari's family). One cannot judge what happened there just because of this or that TV news or rumors spread by those who have no genuine information. I start shaking when I remember the glorious stand of Jashari family and cannot stop my tears running down my cheeks when I recall the picture of the bodies I've seen during the funeral. Not many people in world's history have shown the courage and passion for fatherland like Adem Jashari and his family did. His family and his sacrifice should be exalted to heaven just like the sacrifice of other Albanian people throughout Kosova who gave their lives for Kosova. How can one call a coward a man who stands up to protect his ethnic identity, to protect his wife and daughter from rapers, to protect his chldren from being masacred and who in the end of the day wanted to live in freedon just like the other people of the world. Cowards were Serbs who not being able to fight UCK killed innocent old people and children, who used all means of theror against civilians and who violated all war convenants. And with all due respect for the international community, no one can force me to live together with someone who killed my father, raped my sister, burnt my son and torched my house. To serbs I have only one reply: I HATE YOU IN THIS WORLD AND I WILL HATE YOU IN THE OTHER ONE AS WELL.